Natural languages, communication, etc

Archive for May, 2013

Michael Witzel's Concoction of Absence of Willow from Bharat – Premendra Priyadarshi

Michael Witzel and the Indian Willow

Michael Witzel s Concoction of Absence of Willow from India

By Premendra Priyadarshi

Monday, May 27, 2013

The way he distorted, misrepresented and concocted

history will not be ignored by the posterity. It will be

difficult for the people of the future to believe that he

did not know the truth, particularly when the fact will

be known to them that people like me had pointed out the

errors of facts in his works. They will know that he had

the option of retracting from or correcting his earlier

stands about the Aryan migration after knowing the

loopholes in his theories. Many in future will condemn

him of telling the untruth, and he will be accused of

racial bigotry.

So what are the facts which expose Witzel to the extent

of condemnation?

They are many, many! Today we will see the example of

Indian willow only. Other examples will be presented in

future in my blogs.

Willow

Witzel claimed that willow is not found in India, and

that it was not found in India when the Aryans arrived

here, and that they (the Aryans) thrust the name vetasa

on to the reeds , after finding no willow tree in

northwest India (Witzel 2005:374; also 2009 Fulltext:5

n32).

[Witzel (2005:373) wrote, Some of them therefore exhibit

a slight change in meaning; a few others possibly are

applications of old, temperate zone names to newly

encountered plants, such as willow > reed, cane .

Again, this change in meaning indicates the path of the

migration, from the temperate zone into India. ]

He did not check the facts before writing. At least 40

species of willow (Salix) are native to northwest India

(Pakistan), Nepal, Kashmir and other high altitude

regions of north India, even if we ignore the species

present in Afghanistan.

http://www.efloras.org/browse.aspx?flora_id=110&name_str=salix&btnSea…

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=110&taxon_id=129059

http://www.efloras.org/browse.aspx?flora_id=5&name_str=salix&btnSearc…

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=129059

Witzel also did not know the palynological study of

archaeological remains that this particular plant

willow s pollens have been found in abundance from

Mehrgarh locality from tenth millennium BC up to the

fourth millennium BC (Jarrige 2008:151). That means the

Rig Vedic plantvetasa was willow, if the Rig Veda had

been composed before the fourth millennium BCE, in the

Indus-Saraswati Valley around Mehrgarh. The possibility

of such an early date of the Rig-Veda is gaining hold as

history is unfolding itself through the results of DNA

studies, archaeogenetics, archaeology and by revision of

the linguistic studies is pushing back the date of

composition of the Rig Veda (Kazanas 2009).

Even after that till date, willow is found in many

northern parts of India and Nepal. Some of the finest

willows of furniture and basket grade are found in India

under the species names Salix types deticulata, elegans

etc. At least 30 species of Salix are found in Nepal and

28 in Pakistan itself. Hence Witzel s wild guess that

willow might not be found in India proves wrong and

collapses his entire credibility as a reliable author.

Continues at:

http://bharatkalyan97.blogspot.com/2013/05/michael-witzels-concoction…

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi

Om Shanti

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.jai-maharaj

.
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Sentient young children acquire a second language unawares

Yesterday I finally met the two young children of my Israeli professor

friend (originally Australian) who is in NYC on sabbatical for two

years. They’ve been here 10 months and their English is flawless.

(Their father complains that they have New York accents.) The older,

Shelley, had some English in first grade before she left; the younger,

Ben, would have had only what his father might occasionally have said

to him. (I believe their mother’s native language is Hebrew, but she

didn’t say two words to me and speaks to the children only in Hebrew;

they use Hebrew as a secret language around their American friends.)

I asked them both together if they could remember how it was when they

got here almost a year ago and didn’t speak English and couldn’t talk

to their classmates, and if they remembered what it felt like to learn

English. Shelley (8) went first. She asked if I meant reading and

writing? and I said no, just talking. She put it in terms of a girl in

her class who spoke Hebrew and helped her in the first days and then

she made friends.

Ben (6) didn’t seem to have been listening to her story, but his was

the same: I made friends, and now my teacher [he suppressed saying her

name: that was interesting] helps me with reading and writing.

Thus newly bilingual children conceptualize their new accomplishment

strictly in terms of making friends, and reading/writing. It’s as if

they simply don’t realize they haven’t always been speaking two

languages.

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Michael Witzel's Concoction of Absence of Willow from Bharat – Premendra Priyadarshi

Michael Witzel and the Indian Willow

Michael Witzel s Concoction of Absence of Willow from India

By Premendra Priyadarshi

Monday, May 27, 2013

The way he distorted, misrepresented and concocted

history will not be ignored by the posterity. It will be

difficult for the people of the future to believe that he

did not know the truth, particularly when the fact will

be known to them that people like me had pointed out the

errors of facts in his works. They will know that he had

the option of retracting from or correcting his earlier

stands about the Aryan migration after knowing the

loopholes in his theories. Many in future will condemn

him of telling the untruth, and he will be accused of

racial bigotry.

So what are the facts which expose Witzel to the extent

of condemnation?

They are many, many! Today we will see the example of

Indian willow only. Other examples will be presented in

future in my blogs.

Willow

Witzel claimed that willow is not found in India, and

that it was not found in India when the Aryans arrived

here, and that they (the Aryans) thrust the name vetasa

on to the reeds , after finding no willow tree in

northwest India (Witzel 2005:374; also 2009 Fulltext:5

n32).

[Witzel (2005:373) wrote, Some of them therefore exhibit

a slight change in meaning; a few others possibly are

applications of old, temperate zone names to newly

encountered plants, such as willow > reed, cane .

Again, this change in meaning indicates the path of the

migration, from the temperate zone into India. ]

He did not check the facts before writing. At least 40

species of willow (Salix) are native to northwest India

(Pakistan), Nepal, Kashmir and other high altitude

regions of north India, even if we ignore the species

present in Afghanistan.

http://www.efloras.org/browse.aspx?flora_id=110&name_str=salix&btnSea…

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=110&taxon_id=129059

http://www.efloras.org/browse.aspx?flora_id=5&name_str=salix&btnSearc…

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=129059

Witzel also did not know the palynological study of

archaeological remains that this particular plant

willow s pollens have been found in abundance from

Mehrgarh locality from tenth millennium BC up to the

fourth millennium BC (Jarrige 2008:151). That means the

Rig Vedic plantvetasa was willow, if the Rig Veda had

been composed before the fourth millennium BCE, in the

Indus-Saraswati Valley around Mehrgarh. The possibility

of such an early date of the Rig-Veda is gaining hold as

history is unfolding itself through the results of DNA

studies, archaeogenetics, archaeology and by revision of

the linguistic studies is pushing back the date of

composition of the Rig Veda (Kazanas 2009).

Even after that till date, willow is found in many

northern parts of India and Nepal. Some of the finest

willows of furniture and basket grade are found in India

under the species names Salix types deticulata, elegans

etc. At least 30 species of Salix are found in Nepal and

28 in Pakistan itself. Hence Witzel s wild guess that

willow might not be found in India proves wrong and

collapses his entire credibility as a reliable author.

Continues at:

http://bharatkalyan97.blogspot.com/2013/05/michael-witzels-concoction…

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi

Om Shanti

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.jai-maharaj

posted by admin in Uncategorized and have Comment (1)

Sentient young children acquire a second language unawares

Yesterday I finally met the two young children of my Israeli professor

friend (originally Australian) who is in NYC on sabbatical for two

years. They’ve been here 10 months and their English is flawless.

(Their father complains that they have New York accents.) The older,

Shelley, had some English in first grade before she left; the younger,

Ben, would have had only what his father might occasionally have said

to him. (I believe their mother’s native language is Hebrew, but she

didn’t say two words to me and speaks to the children only in Hebrew;

they use Hebrew as a secret language around their American friends.)

I asked them both together if they could remember how it was when they

got here almost a year ago and didn’t speak English and couldn’t talk

to their classmates, and if they remembered what it felt like to learn

English. Shelley (8) went first. She asked if I meant reading and

writing? and I said no, just talking. She put it in terms of a girl in

her class who spoke Hebrew and helped her in the first days and then

she made friends.

Ben (6) didn’t seem to have been listening to her story, but his was

the same: I made friends, and now my teacher [he suppressed saying her

name: that was interesting] helps me with reading and writing.

Thus newly bilingual children conceptualize their new accomplishment

strictly in terms of making friends, and reading/writing. It’s as if

they simply don’t realize they haven’t always been speaking two

languages.

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lexicon valley

Does anyone here know why there haven’t been any podcasts of Slate’s Lexicon Valley since January and when they might resume?

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Soy–they forgot musicology !

I was writing some maths

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lexicon valley

Does anyone here know why there haven’t been any podcasts of Slate’s Lexicon Valley since January and when they might resume?

posted by admin in Uncategorized and have No Comments

Another Mystery

Consider the constructions "neither do I" and "nor do I".

First, and less important, question: Does everybody agree with my

conclusion that these are equivalent and that in an construction of

this type they are synonyms and equally acceptable?

Second question: What kind of a construction is this? The subject

follows the verb – as in questions

These are just one example (restricting myself to "nor") of a class of

constuctions:

    nor am I

    nor do I agree

    nor have I agreed

    nor might I agree

    nor could I have agreed

    nor might I have been being watched

It seems that, exactly as in questions, any verb construction can

appear provided the verb is the copula or there is at least one

auxiliary.  [Note to self – is there any chance of treating the bare

copula as an auxiliary to an invisible verb?]

I tried to find any discussion of this matter but failed.  Technically

it should cause no trouble – if you can explain questions you can

explain this. The only implication I see that matters is that it shows

that subject-second is not characteristic of questions but rather an

independent process utilized in questions and elsewhere.

Anybody know something I am missing?

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Another Mystery

Consider the constructions "neither do I" and "nor do I".

First, and less important, question: Does everybody agree with my

conclusion that these are equivalent and that in an construction of

this type they are synonyms and equally acceptable?

Second question: What kind of a construction is this? The subject

follows the verb – as in questions

These are just one example (restricting myself to "nor") of a class of

constuctions:

    nor am I

    nor do I agree

    nor have I agreed

    nor might I agree

    nor could I have agreed

    nor might I have been being watched

It seems that, exactly as in questions, any verb construction can

appear provided the verb is the copula or there is at least one

auxiliary.  [Note to self – is there any chance of treating the bare

copula as an auxiliary to an invisible verb?]

I tried to find any discussion of this matter but failed.  Technically

it should cause no trouble – if you can explain questions you can

explain this. The only implication I see that matters is that it shows

that subject-second is not characteristic of questions but rather an

independent process utilized in questions and elsewhere.

Anybody know something I am missing?

posted by admin in Uncategorized and have Comments (7)

Another Mystery

Consider the constructions "neither do I" and "nor do I".

First, and less important, question: Does everybody agree with my

conclusion that these are equivalent and that in an construction of

this type they are synonyms and equally acceptable?

Second question: What kind of a construction is this? The subject

follows the verb – as in questions

These are just one example (restricting myself to "nor") of a class of

constuctions:

    nor am I

    nor do I agree

    nor have I agreed

    nor might I agree

    nor could I have agreed

    nor might I have been being watched

It seems that, exactly as in questions, any verb construction can

appear provided the verb is the copula or there is at least one

auxiliary.  [Note to self – is there any chance of treating the bare

copula as an auxiliary to an invisible verb?]

I tried to find any discussion of this matter but failed.  Technically

it should cause no trouble – if you can explain questions you can

explain this. The only implication I see that matters is that it shows

that subject-second is not characteristic of questions but rather an

independent process utilized in questions and elsewhere.

Anybody know something I am missing?

posted by admin in Uncategorized and have Comment (1)